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Kier's new forum script: Xenforo


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I think that's just the excitement talking. In the cold light of day, I doubt many could switch to an unfinished product regardless of how promising it is. Early adopters are likely to be new small

This has been an interesting, worthwhile discussion and many great points have been raised throughout. Nonetheless, I don't feel it's appropriate to host discussion of the legal dispute between Intern

As the saying goes "Stay tuned..." 3.2 was always going to be a refinement release. 3.0 introduced the new framework, 3.1 added much needed functionality so it's time to take stock and clean up our


Should IPS start beginning to get worries as XenForo seems to be getting a lot of interest, Also XenForo seem to be using new coding techniques?




No. And here's why. The folks at XF are initially concentrating solely on the forum software. That's it. And while that may serve the purpose of the minor hobby forum, many of us want or need much more than just forum software.

Because XF is going to concentrate on just forum software, they're already shooting themselves in the foot by not positioning themselves to compete with vB and IPB. They've also made some changes to how things work that immediately makes the software a non-starter for me.

I do wish Kier and crew all the best, but I don't think they've really thought out their business strategy thoroughly. In order to really make a splash upon release, their software must not only be amazing, but it has to blow the competition out of the water. I'm not seeing it, and from what I've read as far as their vision and immediate goals, it's not going to happen.
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The look is the least compelling reason to choose a platform. I really don't want my site to look like a ton of other default sites. I dislike the default IPB look a lot, but it skins very well, better than vB, especially vB4. ( I've never really had to scroll to the bottom of vB boards to check the brand, it's usually pretty obvious)

Right now XF is a bit of hope for vB refugees, hence much of the excitement there. It's gonna be a while before it matches the capabilities of the more established players in the field. It has a lot of promise, especially in bringing out new features. It's a completely fresh platform that will try to set some new standards. That should keep things moving forward for everyone. And once it is able to mature into a full platform, then we shall see.

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Ipb will not get a bigger share of market up to when it's soo 2005 style. Call me crazy if that makes you fell better.



As someone who is particularly interested in forum software UI design, I'd love to know what specifically you like about the XenForo UI, and particularly what you think needs updating in the default IPB style?
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The only reason people are going to xf is due to its style, nothing else.




In my opinion, that reasons there is so much interest over there isn't because of the style, but because of Kier and Mike.

I am a member over there and really like some of the things I see, and have already started pitching that they be added here.. just like I do when vB does something right, but I won't be moving my community.

I ran vB and loved it and the company before IB took over.. then I moved over here. The deciding factor for me when looking at a move is how will my community benefit in the long term. I look at Management, Past record, Software, Support, Community etc... Looking at those, in my opinion IPS wins hands down against anyone in the market right now.

Now, although I am staying with IPB, I love the fact that Kier and Mike is producing XenForo and I hope it's successful mostly because the more they succeed that more they will push forum standards higher and we will ALL win. :)

Jamie
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As someone who is particularly interested in forum software UI design, I'd love to know what specifically you like about the XenForo UI, and particularly what you think needs updating in the default IPB style?



Hi, I will be happy to reply.
First of all, check out my website: techforum.it/forum
As you can see the ipb theme is not really easy to notice. I did big changes.
I asked at something like 10 persons I work with if they knewed xenforo, and what they fought about it.
50% of it already knowed the board and everyone answered that the user interface was amazing. Today I also meet the runner of an Italian ipb board support site, he fought the same.
I also asked at some of my end users, everyone loved the simply and really functional design.

What I like is the super user friendly design-it is not anymore like 2004, it's clean, there is only what need and it's than focused on content.

Paradoxally, I like the missing of features.

I'm a coder and I will code myself sections like news, reviews etc with the xf framework, that I believe to be solid.

I don't think I need to be more specific, have you registered? Have you tried to play with it a bit?

If no, it's time to do so ;)
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Hi, I will be happy to reply.


First of all, check out my website: techforum.it/forum


As you can see the ipb theme is not really easy to notice. I did big changes.


I asked at something like 10 persons I work with if they knewed xenforo, and what they fought about it.


50% of it already knowed the board and everyone answered that the user interface was amazing. Today I also meet the runner of an Italian ipb board support site, he fought the same.


I also asked at some of my end users, everyone loved the simply and really functional design.



What I like is the super user friendly design-it is not anymore like 2004, it's clean, there is only what need and it's than focused on content.



Paradoxally, I like the missing of features.



I'm a coder and I will code myself sections like news, reviews etc with the xf framework, that I believe to be solid.



I don't think I need to be more specific, have you registered? Have you tried to play with it a bit?



If no, it's time to do so ;)




I have registered and I have played about with it, I'm far more interested in other peoples opinions though :)

You mention that you find the design very functional and user-friendly, can you be more specific about which parts / elements of the XenForo design you find particularly user-friendly / functional compared to IPB?
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I was under the impression Xenforo was not yet released, and thus I don't see how people could be "going to [it]" just yet.



Bfarber, he/she means "going to" in that they have high enough opinion of it that they'll try it or are considering moving to it.
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I will try to make a little list.

The first impact is beatifull, clean and organized
The home only shows what is needed, JavaScript worries about forum description and hides it most of the times, the same functionality in less space than
The lateral bar also is clean and isn't as heavy as the ipb one, it has useful things only in it.
The way of displaing avatars is the best iv ever seen
Postbit is the cleanest as possible, not full of info, only what is needed


I'm sorry but I think that this list is useless.

What I like is the concept: do more with less
Making things complex is easy, the goal, what they reached with this alpha is to provide a fully fjncionalitu board whereeverthing is easy. Two more examples:
The alert system in both ipb and xf
The user settings in both ipb and xf

Providing a style that makes ipb looks like xf, even if it's a wonderful system is, belove me, next to be impossible.

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I will try to make a little list.



The first impact is beatifull, clean and organized





I think the exact opposite. The existing default style is subdued and difficult to read. While it may be great for "younger" eyes, older folks will find it a pain (literally).

If Kier and company really wanted to make the product shine, they'd ensure ALL users could view their example easily. As it is, the existing style combined with other asinine changes they've made is going to turn off a LOT of people.
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I will try to make a little list.



The first impact is beatifull, clean and organized


The home only shows what is needed, JavaScript worries about forum description and hides it most of the times, the same functionality in less space than


The lateral bar also is clean and isn't as heavy as the ipb one, it has useful things only in it.


The way of displaing avatars is the best iv ever seen


Postbit is the cleanest as possible, not full of info, only what is needed





Every bit of this can be accomplished by IPB or even vB 3.8 (vB 4.0 if you have THAT much time)

All of these things are 'style' things... things that can and will be changed by most of the users.

If anyone really want to say that X forum software is better than Y forum software, then they would have to name out things that can't be accomplished in one of the other.

Style is a matter of taste and is fully changeable so in my opinion, it doesn't get a say in whether a script is better than another.

An example of a difference I like over at XF vs here is the way they handle images. This is an item I really wish would stop falling on deaf ears here, so handling images across the apps just isn't good in my opinion.

I have mentioned this before in these forums, and I have seen and like the way XF handles images. This is something different, unique and better about XF vs IPB. But even given that, I will stick with IPB as I trust this team to continue to make improvements.

Jamie
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The look is the least compelling reason to choose a platform. I really don't want my site to look like a ton of other default sites. I dislike the default IPB look a lot, but it skins very well, better than vB, especially vB4. ( I've never really had to scroll to the bottom of vB boards to check the brand, it's usually pretty obvious)



Right now XF is a bit of hope for vB refugees, hence much of the excitement there. It's gonna be a while before it matches the capabilities of the more established players in the field. It has a lot of promise, especially in bringing out new features. It's a completely fresh platform that will try to set some new standards. That should keep things moving forward for everyone. And once it is able to mature into a full platform, then we shall see.




Great!!!
Why is it so hard to understand it?
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So here is an example of a profile bit that I just finished, and I think it looks A LOT better than XenForo's profile (and IPB default). I think my point is simply that styling is really a terrible reason to switch to a forum. Functionality and ease of modification, however, is key. If IPB's design was hard to change, then I would not be saying any of this.

Having said that, nothing is perfect, and there are always news ways of making things look better.

Here is my "work in progress":
%7Boption%7D

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We will always keep an eye to our competitors, but no, we're not "worrying". We are focusing on the requests *our* customers make and putting in all of our efforts to deliver top of the line word-class software that you expect. We would be doing the exact same thing regardless of any new (or existing) competitors on the market.



XenForo is not using any new "coding techniques" that I'm aware of. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by this, however, so it's hard to comment on. I presume you are referring to the interface of XenForo, in which case none of it is new, even if some of the concepts haven't been tested in forums specifically before (at least out of the box). Most of the techniques you are seeing are relatively easy to set up with jQuery - it's just a matter of personal preferences and finding ways to streamline the interface without breaking functionality or confusing users. One thing they do have going for them is that it is a new software package, so there are no expectations set by previous versions. In contrast, when we moved from 2.3.x to 3.x we had to make some concessions and decisions based around the fact that we did want to retain a certain level of familiarity with previous versions. I wouldn't suggest either is a good thing or a bad thing, but it simply means the environment you are working in is different, and thus you have different tools at your disposal as a result.




Think its the UI thats making it looks fast and clean, as for the "coding techniques". I cannot remember where I saw this but i'm sure is was on the XF board somewhere. I'll try and find it and post the link here soon as I find it.

What is jQuery and does IPB support it?
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Why is that? What parts make it hard?




You'll understand once you hit the half century mark. :o

Subdued colors make reading text much more difficult. Conversely, those sites that tend to use dark backgrounds are also difficult to read. High contrast themes and styles where the text stands out makes for much easier reading.
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So here is an example of a profile bit that I just finished, and I think it looks A LOT better than XenForo's profile (and IPB default). I think my point is simply that styling is really a terrible reason to switch to a forum. Functionality and ease of modification, however, is key. If IPB's design was hard to change, then I would not be saying any of this.



Having said that, nothing is perfect, and there are always news ways of making things look better.



Here is my "work in progress":


[img]

[/img]




That does look nice Graeme... very nice work, much cleaner, certainly a huge improvement over the IPB one, which is really clunky, boxey, buggy in IE7 and unappealling....

The huge problem is.. in 5 minutes time when there is another upgrade, you will have to redo that, or manually code in any changes etc... as you will with any template you have altered to make IPB prettier ....yes of course there are ways of course of making IPB look better, I've built a career out of it :P

But the base is often ugly, and not very user friendly, some areas are down right diabolical, like the Blogs which are hideous and dispite many complaints it appears no one is listening.

Yes we can change IPB to look something like xenforo... but seriously, think about that, why should that be necessary.

IPB is very cool under the hood, it is quick and strong and has a massive feature list. It is the best forum software available right now... by FAR... however, the UI has always been it's failing, and whilst it is much better than vB it is still outdated. xenforo looks modern, clean, loads faster and is the best UX I have ever had on a default skinned forum anywhere anytime.

I totally get the whole weight of expectation and the baggage of existing customer demands that IPB were working under when 3.0 hit.... heck I have been guilty of being like that myself around here, not wanting change etc... but here's the thing, having seen the change via xenforo.. I want it, and I want it bad. I want a cleaner more functional base to build my beautiful skins on.

I Adore IPB, as you all know, :wub: but I am very impressed with xenforo, I will be buying a license, and I will be skinning for it, not just because it is another product line to add to the portfolio, but because I love using it.. it is very sexy software.
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I certainly understand your point regarding upgrades and stuff. However, the problem will always be that there is no "one" design that will do for everyone. If their style properties system is as good as it could be, then we should certainly be worried as skinners because it looks fantastic.

However, I can't say anything about the backend of XenForo as I haven't seen the template system. However, of course I agree that it looks great and it's certainly something I'll be keeping an eye on. I just feel that designs can be changed, so therefore why care what a "default" product looks like?

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