Jump to content

Community

majdi

Kier's new forum script: Xenforo

Recommended Posts


What you are saying is actually quite common. Many people look at the raw number of modifications and think "software x has more or less modifications than software y" but this is really a horrible way to shop around. Firstly, how many of those modifications are current, supported, work well enough to use, and add actual functionality you are after? How many of the modifications are out dated, no longer supported, or are plain pointless? How many modifications are actually available in other products out of the box? The raw numbers tell little. Perhaps IPB has less mods than software x because it has more built-in features?



Setting that aside, most of the time when I communicate with users I find that they actually don't need a "modification" at all - they need something entirely custom and unique for their site, which is what you indicated as well. I find that to be my experience too. Thus, I think it's important to see a flourishing community of developers who are able and willing to take on custom projects, more so than a raw number of modifications that seems high. I'm sure we could pad our numbers, submitting tons of useless things ("javascript clock plugin for sidebar", etc.) but at the end of the day if it doesn't benefit the users and deliver what they want, I would consider it pointless.



For your IP.Content job - I would generally quote a 3 hour job somewhere around $200-$300 most likely. It's just the nature of the business (there is a lot more that goes into it than the number of hours). Now, what is of importance, however, is (as you pointed out) how long is the work supported. Will it upgrade with the software, or will it need updates? Are those updates included, or is there a charge (and if there is a charge, what sort of rate would be charged)? You indicated that technical help is important - I think we're at a point where we have a very large user base, but those with the technical skills to assist others are getting outweighed heavily by those who do *not* have such technical skills. As a result, there are more questions coming in than answers being provided, and really this is difficult to address. We can't staff for assistance outside the scope of our support, and we can't force users to come here and answer random questions other users have. What would you see as a solution to this? Obviously the best solution is if more of the community chipped in with their experience and knowledge where possible, but understanding that there is little we can do about that, do you have any other ideas? :)



100% Agree with the bold part, and would have been delighted to pay $300 for the IP.Content mod, assuming some other questions/issues I missed/misunderstood were answered regarding IP.Board itself.

You are indeed overwhelmed, that is a good thing, an opportunity. I talked to Charles about that on the phone months ago, but I had no concrete suggestion at the time.

The approach I would first consider is approaching people that like to visit this forum and help, and most importantly train them. You have recently promoted several normal members to what appears to be a staff position, you may have trained them, you may be paying them, I do not know. If you could select people to train to pass your knowledge on to help others on this forum that would be tremendous. For example how to code various things in IP.Content. Once you have more trained people: Consider being a 'match maker'/'bit pimp'. Matching people with the desired modifications, with people with the desired skill set, and take a commission, but keep it part of the company. My impression is that you tried that in the past but there were not enough people to help - that is where the training comes in, you need more skilled people.

Brandon, you are extremely skilled, the next step is to pass some of that knowledge on. Other people should be able to do what you do, at least a bit.

In addition, I would strongly consider a 'best answer' system on the tech support forum, independent from the above training. Let normal people try to answer peoples questions. Something like 'how do I' topics being open for 30days, and the person asking the question gets to select the best answer (if any) and change their mind during that 30days. At the end of 30days the best answer will have been made, and the person that gave the best answer would be compensated with $. It does not need to be much $, but something so people can feel their time on this forum serves a purpose.

There is a *huge* amount of good will and talent on this forum, fantastic members, it would be great to take advantage of that.

I have other ideas, but it would be fruitless/pointless to suggest anything more detailed unless I knew more about what has been tried in the past.

For the record, I don't visit this forum as much as I once did, sorry if what I typed may have been already brought up on the forums.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like xenForo, so far. But jeez, it's still alpha and there is so far for it to go before it reaches maturity. Promising? Very. Ready? It's gonna be a while. I think I could probably use it for a BS site I have currently on SMF. I think it has at least a year before it becomes really viable for a full featured site.

I have been moving more and more away from doing a lot of modding to my site. I hate having to wait for upgrades until a mod author updates. I am finding IPB is becoming more and more complete out of the box. This is the best way, IMO. A simple toggle to enable or disable a builtin feature is enough to satisfy those who may want a simple site or a more feature rich site. Installing mods is so dependent on mostly volunteer people who have other strains on their time, it sometimes becomes stressful for the site owner to try to run their board. I think the IPB modding community has lost more modders to puberty than any other thing. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more thing. A really good way to train people is with videos/screen casts. The type of videos that clearly explain how to do things, the reasons they are being done, and focused in on the area of interest so things can be clearly seen.

I saw a couple of good videos regarding IP.Content (I think), then I saw at least one that had no audio, it moved quickly around, and was not focused on the area of interest to have any idea what was going on or why.

Perhaps my easiest suggestion to implement would be to pick 1 person that is self confident to have their voice recorded, and has the technical knowledge, to make more instructional videos. Instructional videos to get the point across clearly and keeping them somewhat concise, is not easy, but I've done it in the past for other things and it reaps untold benefits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more thing. A really good way to train people is with videos/screen casts. The type of videos that clearly explain how to do things, the reasons they are being done, and focused in on the area of interest so things can be clearly seen.



I saw a couple of good videos regarding IP.Content (I think), then I saw at least one that had no audio, it moved quickly around, and was not focused on the area of interest to have any idea what was going on or why.



Perhaps my easiest suggestion to implement would be to pick 1 person that is self confident to have their voice recorded, and has the technical knowledge, to make more instructional videos. Instructional videos to get the point across clearly and keeping them somewhat concise, is not easy, but I've done it in the past for other things and it reaps untold benefits.



I agree with the video tutorials...
Not everyone is capable of following or learning easily with a step-by-step text.

I fall asleep most of time (which is why i loathe reading, but I am a fast reader though), but can stay up for hours learning php through videos...
I also need to learn how to use this IP.Content I purchased, but haven't touched due to my confusion with it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NASA would go with ipb because its out of this world!



/me goes back to his box now...



Hahaha xD


The admin zone guys have opened a forum for XF.



[url="http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=314"]http://www.theadminz...splay.php?f=314[/url]



It's gaining reputation even though it's not yet released.



I don't find this right at all...but oh wellz...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should IPS start beginning to get worries as XenForo seems to be getting a lot of interest, Also XenForo seem to be using new coding techniques?




IPS has nothing to worry about ... they are leading in innovation albeit they could be delivering new products faster ...

the previous world leader has lost all interest in listening to their customers and moving forums forward. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should IPS start beginning to get worries as XenForo seems to be getting a lot of interest, Also XenForo seem to be using new coding techniques?




We will always keep an eye to our competitors, but no, we're not "worrying". We are focusing on the requests *our* customers make and putting in all of our efforts to deliver top of the line word-class software that you expect. We would be doing the exact same thing regardless of any new (or existing) competitors on the market.

XenForo is not using any new "coding techniques" that I'm aware of. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by this, however, so it's hard to comment on. I presume you are referring to the interface of XenForo, in which case none of it is new, even if some of the concepts haven't been tested in forums specifically before (at least out of the box). Most of the techniques you are seeing are relatively easy to set up with jQuery - it's just a matter of personal preferences and finding ways to streamline the interface without breaking functionality or confusing users. One thing they do have going for them is that it is a new software package, so there are no expectations set by previous versions. In contrast, when we moved from 2.3.x to 3.x we had to make some concessions and decisions based around the fact that we did want to retain a certain level of familiarity with previous versions. I wouldn't suggest either is a good thing or a bad thing, but it simply means the environment you are working in is different, and thus you have different tools at your disposal as a result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...for once I agree with the IPB staff, and with bfarber.
It isnt't a sweaty competition, as IPB has it's devs, and it's style, code, manners, setting. Who knows the direction of Xenforo's software? Who cares? I don't, even if I'm almost curious to see the ongoing stuffs of the wonderful chat that is xenforo actually.
If someone grows up on the market with his own way of coding...he's the welcome. maybe he was bewitched by some forum before, and one day he will become the inspiration of existing forums's softwares and so on. I'm italian, and in my continent there are even the spanish. This doesn't mean that we are better or we want to be better than them and vice versa: we will continue to be italian and spanish, and we both will continue to generate either spanish stuffs or italian stufffs. This is what I do see in front of me.
I left smf for IPB. Happy. Not that much, but I can still see an abyss between Xenforo and other softwares, except for the fact that it's new, and like the all new things..exciting for any kind of stuff.
I don't understand why the IPB staff try to respond to the provocations of most of the posts. It's absolutely unnecessary, IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm from my iPhone, so I will be fast. I'm currently an ipb customer, and I started loving the framework. My website is full of customizations, I think I broked any record for it.
However, I will move to xf. The only reason is the user interface.
Why don't you at ipb invest 20k in studying and realizing the best user interface ever? Features are already here and all works great, but the ui is really really ugly.

IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm from my iPhone, so I will be fast. I'm currently an ipb customer, and I started loving the framework. My website is full of customizations, I think I broked any record for it.


However, I will move to xf. The only reason is the user interface.


Why don't you at ipb invest 20k in studying and realizing the best user interface ever? Features are already here and all works great, but the ui is really really ugly.



IMO.




GREAT IDEA, as soon as your cheque for 20k is made payable to IPS i'm sure they'll get right on that. Just because you like the interface doesn't mean its the best and only interface on the internet. I prefer IPS interface to XF however thats my personal opinion, i think IPS's is more professional looking and just a bit more attention is paid. Lots of js and whizzy effects doesn't make an interface good or bad. Also IPB has skins so you can make it look however you want...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm from my iPhone, so I will be fast. I'm currently an ipb customer, and I started loving the framework. My website is full of customizations, I think I broked any record for it.


However, I will move to xf. The only reason is the user interface.


Why don't you at ipb invest 20k in studying and realizing the best user interface ever? Features are already here and all works great, but the ui is really really ugly.



IMO.




The "interface" for IPB is quite easily changed. In fact, I've been making some massive changes to it on a new skin I'm working on for a new site. Everyone has their own opinions of what looks best. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, you cant.
They are 2 completly different things. The only reason people are going to xf is due to its style, nothing else. Phpbb have more features.

Think before speak, I do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, you cant.


They are 2 completly different things. The only reason people are going to xf is due to its style, nothing else. Phpbb have more features.



Think before speak, I do it.




i don't think you do. In fact i'm pretty sure you could post "The only reason people are going to xf is due to its style" and have most the people on that forum disagree. In their opinion i'm pretty sure they offer a lot more than a changed interface and style. The statement saying you can't change the interface of IPB is wrong as you can, i'm pretty sure a skinner could whip up a XF style skin with little effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... i'm pretty sure a skinner could whip up a XF style skin with little effort.




Exactly. Albeit obviously a little bit more challenging as we can't use jquery, but having said that, a similar style could easily be created!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. Albeit obviously a little bit more challenging as we can't use jquery, but having said that, a similar style could easily be created!




yea give me time, i'm still hammering the devs to convert to jQuery :P. Most the stuff can be handled with prototype and a load of 3rd party prototype plugins tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are all joking, right?
Ask a coder how long does he take to COPY every single page of xf into an ipb styles. 200 hours? I think more.
Ask on xf.com why they like and they will buy xf. They will all reply I like it, or the user interface is friendly. Noone is such crazy to say "becAuse they will add features in the next 2 years"

However, devs here at ipb did theyr maths. They decide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are all joking, right?


Ask a coder how long does he take to COPY every single page of xf into an ipb styles. 200 hours? I think more.


Ask on xf.com why they like and they will buy xf. They will all reply I like it, or the user interface is friendly. Noone is such crazy to say "becAuse they will add features in the next 2 years"



However, devs here at ipb did theyr maths. They decide.




200 hours? Not at all. The template system in IPB means you wouldn't have to copy EVERY single page. Just the wrappers really. There are quite a few, but hardly 200 hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are all joking, right?


Ask a coder how long does he take to COPY every single page of xf into an ipb styles. 200 hours? I think more.


Ask on xf.com why they like and they will buy xf. They will all reply I like it, or the user interface is friendly. Noone is such crazy to say "becAuse they will add features in the next 2 years"



However, devs here at ipb did theyr maths. They decide.




I am a coder, i think 200 hours is a stretch. But of course you said before its not possible, have you changed your tune? I'm not sure how you can speak for all the people on XF, thats quite some power. I'm a member at XF so i for one can say i do like a few things about it (its uses jQuery woohoo) but the skin isn't one, i don't think its a bad skin, just not something that engages me. I like some of the ideas they have implemented as i'm sure the staff here might agree on. You must remember that your posts are opinions and not gospel and we're entitled to our own opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. Albeit obviously a little bit more challenging as we can't use jquery, but having said that, a similar style could easily be created!




go on then ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...