Why there is no social groups utillity developed by ips ?

[bfarber]

And in all fairness, let's reverse that. Just because vBulletin has Social Groups and we're on IPB doesn't mean that IPB shouldn't implement it aswell. And just because vBulletin implemented it in a bad way doesn't mean that IPB can't implement it in a better way.

I think people are too serious about the whole "IPB vs vB" thing. Just because one has something doesn't mean that the other can't implement it aswell.

You have a fair enough point, and you're correct. Over the last few months, however, you'll notice there are many more "vb has feature x, so you must add it too" topics than usual. I think Ditchmonkey was just replying to that sentiment in and of itself, but not necessarily saying that "don't add anything found in competing software". At least, that's how I read it.

[The Geek]

You have a fair enough point, and you're correct. Over the last few months, however, you'll notice there are many more "vb has feature x, so you must add it too" topics than usual. I think Ditchmonkey was just replying to that sentiment in and of itself, but not necessarily saying that "don't add anything found in competing software". At least, that's how I read it.

I can see how that would get irritating - but if its any consolation you will see they are increasingly getting it in the ear :)

• Where is the FB connect like IPS
• Where is the developer communication like at IPS?
• Why can't vB do a gallery like they do at IPS?
• Why can't vB do a downloads system like they have at IPS?
• Why doesn't vB work (like IPS)?
• Why Can't vB have a Charles like they do at IPS?

etc...

I would just flub it off and keep doing what you're doing - evaluate the merit of the idea and insert it into your priorities accordingly. That approach has gotten you where you are so makes sense to stick to it and ignore if and where the feature first originated. :)

[bfarber]

I can see how that would get irritating - but if its any consolation you will see they are increasingly getting it in the ear :)

• Where is the FB connect like IPS
• Where is the developer communication like at IPS?
• Why can't vB do a gallery like they do at IPS?
• Why can't vB do a downloads system like they have at IPS?
• Why doesn't vB work (like IPS)?
• Why Can't vB have a Charles like they do at IPS?

etc...

I would just flub it off and keep doing what you're doing - evaluate the merit of the idea and insert it into your priorities accordingly. That approach has gotten you where you are so makes sense to stick to it and ignore if and where the feature first originated. :)

"Why Can't vB have a Charles like they do at IPS?"

That just can't happen. There is only one Charles and we have him.

[Charles]

Lack of me: just another way vB users are deprived.

[glorify]

That sounds like a neat mod!

It's not bad. At least the groups are visible. But alas, the groups still aren't used much. For example, I have an Xbox 360 group which is devoid of conversation but a thread about a 360 game in my electronics/games forum can go on and on.

[Smokey-Rev]

I had them on my old vB forum... no one used them!

This :P

[bfarber]

This topic is interesting to me. Almost EVERY converting vBulletin user I've spoken to or heard from has indicated that social groups simply weren't used on their site.

To me, unless your site is intended to specifically be a social networking forum, I don't think your visiting users are going to have much interest in social groups. That's just me. You can call them whatever you want, but the majority of users just don't spend that much time on a random website to bother with "clubs" or "social groups" in my experience.

[Tanax]

You have a fair enough point, and you're correct. Over the last few months, however, you'll notice there are many more "vb has feature x, so you must add it too" topics than usual. I think Ditchmonkey was just replying to that sentiment in and of itself, but not necessarily saying that "don't add anything found in competing software". At least, that's how I read it.

Indeed, but that is just good according to me. That just means that more and more people are migrating over from vB to IPB. They obviously think you have the better software and customer support, they just feel that they want the feature X from their old vB board since they are accustomed to that feature. And let's be honest, that's just natural.

Anyhow, back to Social Groups. I feel that it's not really THAT of an important feature, even though if it would be awesome if it got added - as long as it's done waa - haaaaa - aaay differently than vB has.

[Ditchmonkey]

This topic is interesting to me. Almost EVERY converting vBulletin user I've spoken to or heard from has indicated that social groups simply weren't used on their site.

To me, unless your site is intended to specifically be a social networking forum, I don't think your visiting users are going to have much interest in social groups. That's just me. You can call them whatever you want, but the majority of users just don't spend that much time on a random website to bother with "clubs" or "social groups" in my experience.

Social groups were nothing but a seldom-used curiosity on the Vbulletin bog board I ran. To clarify my previous post - I actually think it would make smart business sense for IPB to add groups just to cater to Vbulletin users that want to switch. But I certainly don't think that groups should be a considered a core feature of any given forum package. It's a forum afterall, not Facebook. I think that most forum packages are already going way to far down the road of the social network paradigm as it is. Friends, status updates etc etc - let's be honest I bet most sites use these features very little. And even those sites that are getting good traction with these social networking features - it's very likely that these features get so little use compared to the actual forum discussions that you have to wonder what the real value is anyway?

Forums are a way of organizing discussions, and by extension a social way of organizing data. IMO where ALL of the current software companies have gotten way off track is in trying to replicate the Facebook experience rather than focusing like a laser on on the core product: the forum as a social discussion and data organizing platform. IPB 3.1 is going to have a lot of crap that are bells and whistles that add little real value at the expense of features that should already be done: centralized search and tagging for all modules (forum, gallery, content, downloads and blog). Better integration of gallery and forum (the current system where a user is expected to post a photo in the gallery app, copy the embed code, and embed gallery photos in discussions one at a time is downright stone age). There are other things but this is already off topic enough.

So to return to the discussion at hand: I really don't care about social groups or any of these social features that replicate the Facebook experience and I believe all of this stuff should be either official add ons by IPB or third part products. There's no doubt in my mind that IPB is the current industry leader and I'll stick with them even though I don't like some of the directions they are taking.

[glorify]

This topic is interesting to me. Almost EVERY converting vBulletin user I've spoken to or heard from has indicated that social groups simply weren't used on their site.

To me, unless your site is intended to specifically be a social networking forum, I don't think your visiting users are going to have much interest in social groups. That's just me. You can call them whatever you want, but the majority of users just don't spend that much time on a random website to bother with "clubs" or "social groups" in my experience.

Here are some interesting stats.

I have a total of 20 Social Groups. Check them out here. Like I said, one group gets used by about 4 members for site stuff pretty much on a daily basis.

Here are the 5 most recent reply dates of different social groups:
1 Day Ago
01-05-2010
11-15-2009
10-25-2009
08-15-2009

I'm not sure if people will use them or not if implemented correctly. I don't think vb ever put any thought in them.

I have always maintained that IF group posts actually showed up in the 'New Posts' or 'Today's Posts' then members would use them. It would clean up extra non needed forum categories and keep the main focus of your site on the topic you want.

Of course ideally, an admin would need a setting with 3 options:
Show All Group Posts in New Posts
Show Only Subscribed Group Posts in New Posts
Show No Group Posts in New Posts

[bfarber]

So to return to the discussion at hand: I really don't care about social groups or any of these social features that replicate the Facebook experience and I believe all of this stuff should be either official add ons by IPB or third part products. There's no doubt in my mind that IPB is the current industry leader and I'll stick with them even though I don't like some of the directions they are taking.

Trust me, we know where you are coming from. We get feedback from many of our customers that are in the same boat as you (indeed, Lindy feels at times we veer off course towards the social networking functionality too much as well - we treat him as the good anchor that he is).

It's a hard job balancing all of the features we get requested to build. So long as it doesn't impact the overall product and can be shut off, we're open to exploring new areas and trying new things, but we agree that fundamentally we can't add social networking features at the *expense* of our existing line up. Hence why you see stuff like the improved search engine coming in 3.1.

We have a lot of ideas for polishing and improving core functionality that will get more attention in the upcoming releases. There's a lot of stuff we'd like to improve before we get too far into adding much else. But, as I said, it's a balancing act.

[Alex]

Lack of me: just another way vB users are deprived.

I couldn't agree more.. you're everything everyone is looking for!

[Morrigan]

But, as I said, it's a balancing act.

I wonder if it involves plates and sticks and do you guys post Youtube videos? *is totally against social groups, I should have complete control over the popular people of my website. I MAKE the popularity on my sites* <_< :D

[Razasharp]

This topic is interesting to me. Almost EVERY converting vBulletin user I've spoken to or heard from has indicated that social groups simply weren't used on their site.

To me, unless your site is intended to specifically be a social networking forum, I don't think your visiting users are going to have much interest in social groups. That's just me. You can call them whatever you want, but the majority of users just don't spend that much time on a random website to bother with "clubs" or "social groups" in my experience.

The problem isn't groups - it was vB's implementation of them (it was almost there mind).

There are lots of community orientated sites that do groups well, I'm sure you're all web-savvy enough to have seen them around (tho they're probably not IPB/vB powered community sites). But of course not every site is suited to them, however, from the 5 (quite different) forum-based sites I run, ALL would benefit from a decent group set-up - tho it's worth pointing out that each site would use them slightly differently.

All I want from a platform like IPB/vB/Druapl - is the tools to let me created the type of site I want. I hate being restricted and forced to do things someone else's way (which is one of the reasons my next two projects are going to be custom builds, using one of the most popular frameworks). I am hoping IP.C is going to be flexible enough to let me do a lot of custom stuff too :) (Haven't really got round to looking at it yet.)

[Mat Barrie]

All I want from a platform like IPB/vB/Druapl - is the tools to let me created the type of site I want. I hate being restricted and forced to do things someone else's way (which is one of the reasons my next two projects are going to be custom builds, using one of the most popular frameworks). I am hoping IP.C is going to be flexible enough to let me do a lot of custom stuff too [img]

[/img] (Haven't really got round to looking at it yet.)

IP.Content or IP.Converge? Current v1 of Converge is about as flexible as a brick - it passes member data, that's it. It's also encoded so we can't make it more useful. v2 is apparently going to be better. IP.Content is as flexible as you want it to be - I use it (nowhere near to it's fullest potential) and with v2 it will be very very worth it. I may have to harangue our product team into putting together a fansite or news network just to utilise the cool new articles system.

[.Ian]

Always amuses me when people say 'a feature has never worked for my forum, so it should not be included'.

Every forum is different, and 90% of IPB owners never come onto these forums - yet for all you know 70% of them might benefit from a feature.

I think Razasharp summed it up perfectly...

[color=#5D5D5D][font=tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=2]All I want from a platform like IPB/vB/Druapl - is the tools to let me created the type of site I want. I hate being restricted and forced to do things someone else's way (which is one of the reasons my next two projects are going to be custom builds, using one of the most popular frameworks).[color=#000000][size=3]

[Jυra]

You want tools that let you create a site you want, but what happens if you don't like the way it's implemented? You won't have the site you want. You could use a modification or add on to change it, but then you could have an add on or modification to have social groups.

[Panupat]

IPB already gave you all the tools you need.... You download the forum as pure PHP script. There's nothing you cannot do with it.

[Zhana]

Well I'd like social groups on my forum as study groups :)

[.Ian]

IPB already gave you all the tools you need.... You download the forum as pure PHP script. There's nothing you cannot do with it.

you might as well just say ' you have php on your server, why buy a script?'. ;)

So why did you buy ip.board?

[Lewis P]

you might as well just say ' you have php on your server, why buy a script?'. ;)

Not really, no.

If there was an option for every single feature possible, then you'd never stop development time and you'd never end up with a product. There has to be a line somewhere where the baton is passed over to mod/application authors who will fill in those gaps as you request them, be that feature one they wish to charge for, or one where they are willing to offer it for free.


-----------

Still, I *could* make a use for 'Social' groups on my site as it will make my job of 'teams' slightly easier to deal with. I'd need the function to be admin/moderator controlled, with an option to turn off members joining them themselves. I'd also need, as an administrator, the access to all the 'group' areas where they can chat amongst themselves. I'd probably then need modifications for topic view etc so that the different members in different groups have a slightly different post/profile look. Going on from that I'd like the ability to have a 'group'/'team' page where it is wiki-styled so the members in that team can edit it to their hearts content describing that group.

See, what I'd have a use for is probably not what... 80% of others want. It just doesn't work.

[.Ian]

Not really, no.

If there was an option for every single feature possible, then you'd never stop development time and you'd never end up with a product. There has to be a line somewhere where the baton is passed over to mod/application authors who will fill in those gaps as you request them, be that feature one they wish to charge for, or one where they are willing to offer it for free.

tosh ;)

So by your own statement IP.Board never needs altering - so why is 3.1 being released? :P

He was simply saying that you do not even need mods or any new features or anything - you might as well be running ip.board 1.

My point is that things always need moving forward and being given good basic tools that can be enhanced is the important factor.

or that is how I read his post.

For example there are several instances where secondary groups are not used both by ip.board and by mods - by properly using primary and secondary groups it allows us to develop further features.

Secondary groups is a good example, which might not be used by all, yet is there and should enable the forums and other software to be used in new ways to enhance the enjoyment of members.

[Lewis P]

I never said that it never needs altering. All I said is that a line needs to be drawn eventually.

If you had a choice between developing the topics/posts feature, or including social groups, what would you choose? The core function of a forum, or something that can be accomplished as a mod (and I believe there is one being developed, no?) a whole lot easier than an entire topics/posts module can be?

[.Ian]

See, what I'd have a use for is probably not what... 80% of others want. It just doesn't work.

20% of IPB users is a large number - and if those 20% are made up of the larger forums, that is an awful lot (millions?) of members of forums that would benefit ;)

so yes it would work for those millions of members who would benefit potentially. ;)

[.Ian]

I never said that it never needs altering. All I said is that a line needs to be drawn eventually.

If you had a choice between developing the topics/posts feature, or including social groups, what would you choose? The core function of a forum, or something that can be accomplished as a mod (and I believe there is one being developed, no?) a whole lot easier than an entire topics/posts module can be?

sure - but a line was drawn after version 1 - that line is constantly rubbed out and redrawn.

social groups ;)

I would say that some features could be more useful to some people than say twitter, facebook or notifications - that does not mean to say I will not use these - but every forum is different hence making available the best tools to move sites forward and to make them unique - how often have you viewed a VB forum and thought, that is identical to the previous VB forum that I viewed.

Giving admins the best tools can prevent every IPB from looking and functioning the same. (Michaels skin tool is another good example of a great tool with potential)