MindTooth Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 UPDATE:We're load testing, trying to isolate the issues. We are running tests on IPB 2... retracing our steps so to speak. We have not downgraded. Hello, Just noticed that Neowin.net had to revert downgrade back to IP.Board 2.3.6 from 3.0.5 to isolate issues upgrading to the latest version. Do to some major problems regarding server scaling, Made from Apache I believe (arrest me if I am wrong.). Neowin.net is the 7th largest forums ranked in Big-Boards using IP.Board. With over 8.000.000 posts and 200.000 members. I beg the question, isn't IP.Board made to scale good enough for large boards? (This is just a question to create a discussion.) Diskusjon.no is the second largest forum in Norway which run IP.Board, which I have been an active member with over 10.000 posts, is planing an upgrade to IP.Board 3.0.x in the near future. Diskusjon.no is larger then the Neowin.net, with more active users. Will we see the same problems for them as well, or is the Neowin.net a experience for the team behind IP.Board to work harder to make sure that it scales better, so that future upgrades is going smoothly.Notice!: This might in fact be a problem regarding the server of Neowin.net, however seeing that they have been in talks with IPS, makes me wonder that there were no imminent fix. Also, this is merely trying to create a discussion about IP.Board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I'm sure that if it was a problem with the design/programming of IPB3, that many hosting companies would start banning the use of IPB3 until the load issues were fixed, because even small boards can generate usage that would cause problems if that were the case. That said, it's not always easy to pinpoint where the main problem is. On certain servers, IPB3 may be triggering another issue that in turn is causing problems. IPB3 in that case isn't the cause, it's simply a trigger that makes the problem noticeable. Hopefully if there are any issues within IPB3 dealing with server load issues, they'll be resolved quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin A. Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Remember that IPS can't simulate the amount of hits and loads that Neowin can experience. Their main "sandbox" is this forum, and it's no where near the size of it. So to one point it's not possible for them to predict what's going to happen on larger boards and various configuration. If they're using Apache, that can be a major bottleneck. It's recommended on various sites on the web to switch to a more light weighted HTTP server if you don't need all features Apache have. Diskusjon.no has a good dialog with IPS (that's what they say), and were able to sort out the issues they had when they upgraded to 2.3 a few years ago, and I'm sure they'll do the same now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H. Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Being the [former?] lead developer for one of the sites listed even above Neowin, I can say that their experiences are not the norm. What performance issues we did have were more a result of our server setup [which, as I understand it, was far less than the usual for our size], and were actually improved by our upgrade from 2.3 to 3.0. Server configuration can have a significant impact on performance. IPS can't catch everything in their pre-release testing, nor can they always predict how well features will scale upward beyond what they can test themselves. To their credit, in every such instance I have seen, IPS has always dealt with scaling issues, and has attempted track down specific problems [a la Neowin] with their full effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collin1000 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/302514-neowin-forums-update/ We already have a topic on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon D Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hopefully they get it sorted out. Neowin reverting back to 2.3.x isn't exactly a win for IPB3, even if the problems are unrelated to IPB3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strike X Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 IP.Board 3 now got bad reputation not being able to handle busy forum like neowin and they have reverted back to IP.Board 2.3.x That is a big shame :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garthilk Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Remember that IPS can't simulate the amount of hits and loads that Neowin can experience. You can easily buy hardware and software to simulate any kind of traffic you want in order to stress software. If they choose not to support large forums that is one thing, but saying you don't have the ability is completely false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindTooth Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/302514-neowin-forums-update/ We already have a topic on this. Not available to me, sorry. To bad they did actually revert :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Neowin is not the biggest IP.Board 3 forum. While we can't talk about any case publicly of course, we have been working with them on the issue. It is by no means that IP.Board 3 isn't capable of their level of traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmak Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 For the record, I'm not convinced that our issue is to do with IPB3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindTooth Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Neowin is not the biggest IP.Board 3 forum. Not stated, posted as 7th ranked on Big-Boards :) I only hope it get solved. Liked Atlas a lot ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Leclair Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I would like to chime in here too. While our website, http://seadoosportboats.com, is NO WAY near as large as Neowin.net we also had major issues when flipping on the IP.Board version 3 of our website. We ran it in an isolated development environment for 3 1/2 months with no real load tests due to only minimal access to the beta website. When we deployed the new version to production on January 8th, 2010 -- we saw the server we were on brought to it's knees within the hour. We worked feverishly with our host to isolate the problem -- they kept saying it was something with our "code". Support for us was minimal over the weekend so the server was up/down/up/down the entire weekend and never stabilized. The server was rebooted numerous times in effort to isolate the high server loads but nothing successfully resolved the issues. On Monday January 11th, 2010 we made the decision to move to a newer, more powerful server --- reverting back to version 2 was not an option for us. It took us about 6 hours that Monday to get the website completely moved over to the new server. Since the move to the new server we have seen the website stabilize and haven't seen high loads on the server causing the website to be unresponsive (and hope it continues this way). It very well could be that this was a coincidence that we experienced server issues at the same time of the upgrade but I find it unlikely -- I kind of agree with our host, "that it is something with the code", especially now after reading this about Neowin.net... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 On Monday January 11th, 2010 we made the decision to move to a newer, more powerful server --- reverting back to version 2 was not an option for us. It took us about 6 hours that Monday to get the website completely moved over to the new server. Since the move to the new server we have seen the website stabilize and haven't seen high loads on the server causing the website to be unresponsive (and hope it continues this way). It very well could be that this was a coincidence that we experienced server issues at the same time of the upgrade but I find it unlikely -- I kind of agree with our host, "that it is something with the code", especially now after reading this about Neowin.net... Based on your description, I'd lean more towards it being the server itself you were on, because even with a more powerful server, if it were the code, you'd still have noticed high loads. So I'm inclined to think that in your case, the strength of the server didn't fix the issue. There's something else that's the true cause, and IPB3 just simply amplified the problem. It's like when you drink really cold ice water and you feel a sharp pain in one of your teeth. The cold itself isn't the cause of the problem, it's simply helping to make a current problem more noticeable. You either have a cavity or at the very least, a very small hole leading to a nerve. Mind you, once the true cause of the issue is found, I'm sure that there's a way to take it into consideration so that IPB3 can still work on a server with the same configuration without the same issue happening, just like you could drink water that isn't so cold to avoid the toothache. It's just a matter of figuring out the true cause of the high server load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Not stated, posted as 7th ranked on Big-Boards :) I only hope it get solved. Liked Atlas a lot ;) Yeah my point was that there are boards larger than Neowin (some which we host) that run IP.Board 3 without problem. While we're of course not suggesting that all issues must be a server issue, it is important that each case is treated individually. The developers always get involved if general support can't find anything (as they are with Neowin) and can make changes to the product if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 As others have already said, we're not going to get into nitty-gritty details. I realize Neowin is a high-profile site so some of you are interested in what is going on behind the scenes, but that's not for us to really discuss. I spent a good portion of Sunday evening, and all day Monday, working with the Neowin developers to try to isolate the issues. While headway was made here and there, the problem was not completely resolved. Unfortunately, performance issues (generally speaking) are the hardest to nail down when there are no clear-cut causes. When you have long running SQL queries, there are many resources available to analyze and optimize those queries. When you have issues within Apache/PHP, troubleshooting such issues are significantly trickier. For what it's worth...We use xdebug and other tools to fully analyze the source code and how it performs. We use load testing tools and environments to determine bottlenecks and validate the type of traffic we can expect IPB to handle given specific hardware environments Additionally, we're here and provide full support for our software. I'm optimistic we will be able to continue working with Neowin to root out the causes and get everything sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. Jekyll Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 As others have already said, we're not going to get into nitty-gritty details. I realize Neowin is a high-profile site so some of you are interested in what is going on behind the scenes, but that's not for us to really discuss. Yes of course, neowin, as all the customers deserve their privacy. But I think most of us just are scared that something similar can happen to our boards, that's why we will feel much better knowing that neowin.net is running on IPB 3.0.x and every work as it should. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Charles Posted January 19, 2010 Management Share Posted January 19, 2010 We host many hundreds of IPB installations, some with thousands online, without any issue. We also work with clients daily with hugely busy installs that have no issues. Every server setup is different so you never know what you are getting into. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isRob Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Hi guys :) Rob from Neowin here, one of the developers. I'd like to echo what IPS have said about them having been in communication with us; Brandon especially has been exceptionally helpful throughout the diagnosis of the issues we've been having, and I can't thank him highly enough.We're having another attempt at an upgrade tonight in fact. We're optimistic. Watch this space :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggi Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 the issue was to do with google/bing/yahoo robots spamming the site NOT IPB3, read: http://www.neowin.net/news/google-binged-us-in-the-yahoo-so-hard-we-had-to-ask-jeeves33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collin1000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 the issue was to do with google/bing/yahoo robots spamming the site NOT IPB3, read: [url="http://www.neowin.net/news/google-binged-us-in-the-yahoo-so-hard-we-had-to-ask-jeeves33"]http://www.neowin.ne...to-ask-jeeves33[/url] I just accidentally negative repped you instead of positive. So in return, thanks for posting the link, you rock, +++++++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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