My opinion on 3.0

[-Calypso-]

Okay, let's start with the good things that I like about it:

1. Looks great!
2. Google indexing :)

Now the things that I don't like:

1. File structure = confusing

I been looking for something for over an hour now and everywhere I turn all I see is "sources", "admin", "modules_admin" and "modules_public". Everything looks the same, same directory/file names no matter what you want to do.

2. Data structure = where is it?

In 2.3.x, the main post view data was loaded in the ipsclass.php file, I have no clue where it is now, been round and round these /dirs/ for over an hour and can not find "userInfoPane" to save my life. I have browsed through the articles here and have yet to see one with the most basic of info on how member data is loaded, outputs and such. Don't take it out of context, I am sure there is a lot of great info in the articles but it looks like steps 1 & 2 were skipping and someone moved directly to steps 3 and beyond. Took me awhile to figure out the how to create a new app, very confusing. With 2.3.x, the minimum requirements were components_public/file.php, lang_file.php and skin_file. There are no examples to a basic app with group permissions. I don't want to have to go back to 2.1.x days where the perms were added to the cp_skin_groups.php/action_admin but as of now it looks like the only viable way to do it. Maybe I'm not feeling it because I am so use to v2.3.x. I see that there are a select few who are "getting it" and that's great (especially for IPS customers), those select few appear to be in one of the upper groups here which is making me think that they received better instructions or something, the rest of us who are not in the "clique" are pretty much s.o.l.

My opinion of it may change later down the road but for now, coding anything for 3.0 is 2 thumbs down.

P.S. I have had a laugh at some of the things I have seen in some of the files, one had something to do with keeping Rikki happy. lolz

[teraßyte]

I suppose you have already seen this article, all the basic info you need are written there anyway :)

[-Calypso-]

Yeah, I've seen it and was able to use a part of it. Good example if I was going to port something over but I am going to do all new coding for everything and it doesn't tell how the member data is loaded/displayed to the forums.

[chasz]

i am ready for RC2 !! is it out for the weekend??

[Rheddy]

RC2? I doubt we'll see an RC2. June is less than a week away and I'm sure that we'll see the final release sometime in the next week. Unless IPB pushes back the release for IPB 3 Final.

[Smokey-Rev]

[quote name='kenichi' date='24 May 2009 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1243187737' post='1804829']
RC2? I doubt we'll see an RC2. June is less than a week away and I'm sure that we'll see the final release sometime in the next week. Unless IPB pushes back the release for IPB 3 Final.

I doubt we'll see a 3.0.0 Final release in the next month. It's stated that there will be an RC2 atleast, in the bug tracker. We may see final by december if we're lucky enough. :)

[chasz]

yeah looking at the tracker, they have the infrastructure in place but not the polish....they should continue to roll out the RC's and the community will bug track for them.

[Ryan H.]

[quote name='kenichi' date='24 May 2009 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1243187737' post='1804829']
RC2? I doubt we'll see an RC2. June is less than a week away and I'm sure that we'll see the final release sometime in the next week. Unless IPB pushes back the release for IPB 3 Final.

Sorry bud, they're not going to hit the June release at this point [nor do they have plans to]. Disregarding further fixes, the skin contest isn't even closing until June 1st, then there's voting and IPB choosing their picks as well, all which has to be done before 3.0 Final being released.

Consider the hundred-some bugs reported and fixed [or to-be-fixed] in RC1, and we have an inevitable RC2 coming still too.

Optimistically, second or third week of June.

[Rheddy]

So, that June release that IPS was referring to was just a fake release date to pacify customers? Well, going back to what I posted months ago, I did warn everyone that IPS wouldn't hit that Pre-June release date. I suspect that we'll see three or four RC releases before the final. If we're lucky, may we'll see a release date for September or worse yet, a Christmas release.

[Josh]

[quote name='kenichi' date='24 May 2009 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1243199444' post='1804864']
So, that June release that IPS was referring to was just a fake release date to pacify customers? Well, going back to what I posted months ago, I did warn everyone that IPS wouldn't hit that Pre-June release date. I suspect that we'll see three or four RC releases before the final. If we're lucky, may we'll see a release date for September or worse yet, a Christmas release.


We never give 'fake' release dates, when we do give dates, they are based on the best information we have available at the time. I would also say that we are not far off from the June estimated release date.

[ᴡᴅツ]

What if someone here finds a super duper critical bug causing a huge security breach with PHP5 and MySQL? IPB and the entire web would be doomed! :D (secret emotion: :ph34r: )

[Rheddy]

Sorry about that, Josh. Been preoccupied with a disruptive member on my site. I think I just used the wrong word. I didn't mean 'fake.' I should really get some sleep before I commit to posting a comment. Won't do that again. :blush:

At any rate, I was going by what has been said before and my predictions concerning the releases of previous Beta Releases as well as the intended verbal release date that IPS has announced, unofficially, and my own predictions about that June date. :huh:

I do apologize for being a little overdramatic and a bit cynical. :D

[Carl M]

Well they talked about december 2008 firstly and now its May and yep i fully expect them to not go gold till july at least. The release candidate with over 100 bugs was a setback too - ive followed other software through betas and release candidates and lets just say there wasnt 20 bug reports nevermind over 100.

But this is the 1st release that wasnt encoded so thats someways towards it.

[Jmiz9000]

We were told a December release date, but i think that was obviously too little time, since its a complete rewrite. I dont think the wait is really worth that much, but ipb3 is really coming out to be going well.

[Martin A.]

Wow, amazing to see how this flipped into a "when is it ready" topic. Like we don't have enough of those...


I've not have any big problems adjusting to the total change of how we do things. Of course, there was the required week(s) of head scratching, but after that you can totally see the beauty of the application/hook installer. Wrapping up a modification for release is like a dream now, and not like 2.2/2.3 with the instruction files with thousands of various file edits.
If you put enough effort into it, you should be able to hook into almost everything by using a mix of all of the three kinds of hooks.


Member data is loaded by IPSMember::load() in ./admin/sources/base/core.php. But every column in ibf_members, ibf_profile_portal, ibf_groups, ibf_sessions and ibf_pfields_content are loaded (if nothing else is specified by the controller), so you don't have to add things to the select part as in the old class_sessions.php.
Output is mainly controlled by ./admin/sources/output/publicOutput.php, and is always accessible trough $this->registry->getClass( 'output' ) or $this->registry->output.


It depends on what kind of group permissions you're looking for. For group specific settings, you have ./extensions/admin/group_form.php, which will create a new tab for you application in the group editor. The same goes for member specific settings (./extensions/member_form.php). Look at existing applications for advice.

I have browsed through the articles here and have yet to see one with the most basic of info on how member data is loaded, outputs and such.

There are no examples to a basic app with group permissions. I don't want to have to go back to 2.1.x days where the perms were added to the cp_skin_groups.php/action_admin but as of now it looks like the only viable way to do it. Maybe I'm not feeling it because I am so use to v2.3.x.

[ᴡᴅツ]

Calm down. It will probably be released in August hopefully.



I remember on the preview boards it was about January, and I said final would come out March. People jumped in and said it would come out before Feb. (If I recall correctly)
Either way, back then I guess we didn't properly estimate things or whatever.

You've waited through all these betas. What harm could a RC2 and RC3 have? :thumbsup:

---seriously---
I know it's taking a long time. But alot of work is being put in the software. Rushing has its limits. After a while it gets distracting and irritating. Just wait a little longer.

BTW, Have you seen how big these bugs were? At least IPB had the courage to go and squish this!


That guy over there. That's probably Charles. Bfarber is hidden in one of those trees with a ray gun. Charles is getting ready to sweep up the mess after bfarber's ray gun blast.

[Rheddy]

What people don't realize is that IPS is always finding bugs. Hence, the periodic upgrades 2.3.1, 2.3.2, 2.3.3, and so on ... they're know as patches. It's impossible to work out all of the bugs ... if IPS held the IPB software until there were no bugs than the new version of IPB would never get released.

[Kfir]

[quote name='kenichi' date='25 May 2009 - 03:54 AM' timestamp='1243220048' post='1804941']
What people don't realize is that IPS is always finding bugs. Hence, the periodic upgrades 2.3.1, 2.3.2, 2.3.3, and so on ... they're know as patches. It's impossible to work out all of the bugs ... if IPS held the IPB software until there were no bugs than the new version of IPB would never get released.

They point is to find the critical ones before going final.
If you didn't realize many bugs were found while upgrading from 2.3, so imagine it was released as final? everyone was experiencing problems with their live boards, and it could have lead to a total mess...

[Guest]

For what it's worth, PHP 5.3 is at Release Candidate 2 stage and they've only just stopped adding features... not to mention the 450+ open bug reports. I'd say IPS are doing quite well. :)

[envonge]

It would be nice if ipb could release the subscription manager before the final so that it could actually be tested before putting it into a "production" release.

[Carl M]

[quote name='envonge' date='25 May 2009 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1243249473' post='1805012']
It would be nice if ipb could release the subscription manager before the final so that it could actually be tested before putting it into a "production" release.


This would further delay IPB 3 - were still awaiting beta releases of Gallery and some of the other components - subscription manager is now a community project.

[Mark]

[quote name='envonge' date='25 May 2009 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1243249473' post='1805012']
It would be nice if ipb could release the subscription manager before the final so that it could actually be tested before putting it into a "production" release.


When has any member of staff said it wouldn't be ready for final?

[quote name='Arctic Monkeys UK.com' date='25 May 2009 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1243250460' post='1805013']
This would further delay IPB 3 - were still awaiting beta releases of Gallery and some of the other components - subscription manager is now a community project.


That is wrong. We have every intention of releasing subscriptions manager with IP.Board 3.0 before handing it over to the community... Matt has been working on it for a while.

[Carl M]

[quote name='Μark' date='25 May 2009 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1243256132' post='1805020']

That is wrong. We have every intention of releasing subscriptions manager with IP.Board 3.0 before handing it over to the community... Matt has been working on it for a while.


My bad.

Thanks for correcting me. :)

[-Calypso-]

[quote name='m4rtin' date='24 May 2009 - 07:55 PM' timestamp='1243212943' post='1804917']
Wow, amazing to see how this flipped into a "when is it ready" topic. Like we don't have enough of those...


I noticed that also, just decided not to reply about it. Thread got hijacked.

[quote name='m4rtin' date='24 May 2009 - 07:55 PM' timestamp='1243212943' post='1804917']
Member data is loaded by IPSMember::load() in ./admin/sources/base/core.php. But every column in ibf_members, ibf_profile_portal, ibf_groups, ibf_sessions and ibf_pfields_content are loaded (if nothing else is specified by the controller), so you don't have to add things to the select part as in the old class_sessions.php.
Output is mainly controlled by ./admin/sources/output/publicOutput.php, and is always accessible trough $this->registry->getClass( 'output' ) or $this->registry->output.


Thanks, I will have a look in those places.

[quote name='m4rtin' date='24 May 2009 - 07:55 PM' timestamp='1243212943' post='1804917']
It depends on what kind of group permissions you're looking for. For group specific settings, you have ./extensions/admin/group_form.php, which will create a new tab for you application in the group editor. The same goes for member specific settings (./extensions/member_form.php). Look at existing applications for advice.


I've tried that, all I get is errors that I can't seem to resolve. Was hoping one of the Community Devs could have broken down some of the stuff into a bit more detail. For example, the group_form.php file, simply cloning it will not work, there are a few other files that need to be created before the tab will actually work.

I posted about this (my error) and got no replies on what could even remotely be causing it.

Thanks for your time and reply. :)

[Rheddy]

Calypso, this sort of thing happens all of the time. We must have gotten about a hundred of these type of topics. Whenever one is closed down someone creates another one until the discussion gets so ridiculous that IPS shuts it down.