Cybertimber2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Fast Lane!' date='05 March 2009 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1236292481' post='1788996'] Valid point. But they still chose to build in a fully functional skin (versus a very reduced and limited skin). ...which is EXACTLY what IPS is doing? The skin will be fully functional but have some appearance glitches in IE6 only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dll Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I really can't understand the point you're making Fast Lane, in order to fully support IE6, IPB would have to remove the features in 3.0 which are using the new technology which is spreading across the web at the moment. If they did that, then IPB would lag way behind many of the other forums and social networking sites out there and would risk alienating the 77% of people who are used to the new technology and come to expect the features it brings. Are you seriously saying they should do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Fast Lane!' date='05 March 2009 - 05:13 PM' timestamp='1236291236' post='1788988'] NBC: http://boards.nbc.com/nbc/index.php?act=idx Nvidia: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=idx For NBC, this is the stock 2.x skin with a simple bit of html in the wrapper around it to "integrate it" into the rest of the site. For Nvidia it is nearly stock entirely. If they did this with IPB 3.x it would have the problems I discussed with IE6. Firstly, I assure you, boards.nbc.com is pretty heavily customized all in all. Trust me - I've done a lot of work on it. ;) At the end of the day, pushing support for IE6 for another year does JUST that, and we would be having this same discussion then (just like this discussion came up a year ago, and when IE7 first came out - those points we did agree it was too early to move away from IE6). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Lane! Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='bfarber' date='06 March 2009 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1236294005' post='1789002'] Firstly, I assure you, boards.nbc.com is pretty heavily customized all in all. Trust me - I've done a lot of work on it. ;) At the end of the day, pushing support for IE6 for another year does JUST that, and we would be having this same discussion then (just like this discussion came up a year ago, and when IE7 first came out - those points we did agree it was too early to move away from IE6). I have a solution that I hesitate to offer... Because it works against me and others in my shoes. The solution is if IPB will offer 2.2.x support for bugs and "hack" fixes, etc... only .x upgrades to 2.2.x in other words... This would create an EOL date possibly until IE6 reaches it's EOL notice next summer. Thoughts? It would provide an avenue that makes everyone happy with the only cost being some legacy support on the side of IPB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct2·com Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm kind of expecting InVision to continue support for IPB2 for a while, and waiting for an announcement on this. A lot of customers seem to like their mods and these are going to need serious review and changes to work with IPB3. For those who think they will still want to mod the actual code, then they still don't have their hands [officially] on unencoded source yet. And there are those who are tied into hosts who are resistant to upgrading their servers to run PHP5, required by IPB3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Lane! Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 A good read on people's opinions on Digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Firefox_eclipses_IE6_in_web_share_threatens_IE7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Fast Lane!' date='05 March 2009 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1236296935' post='1789010'] A good read on people's opinions on Digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Firefox_eclipses_IE6_in_web_share_threatens_IE7 Digg should never be used as a reference for discussion. You'll kill your own argument, even if the Digg community support you. :P As long as the default IP.Board skin is functional and degrades gracefully for IE6, I think that's more than enough to cover this issue. It's only if it degrades badly (completely wrongly placed elements, crashes, functionality issues, etc.) that I'd have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Wikman Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 In Norway the website Finn.no started a small revolution against IE6 that has catched on here in the cold north by several companies adding notices to IE6 users that their browser is old and unsecure. It even got the approval from Microsoft that support getting rid of the pesky browser from hell. Besides the obvious problems with security in a decade old browser it is also limiting and causing harm to the overall use of the internet because so many still use it and we bend over backwards to please the morons and ignorent bastards that still use it. By doing this we, the designers, shoot ourselves in the foot. IE6 should have been long gone had we not been such chickens about loosing income and its more then high time to let go of that ugly beast. If you are worried about loosing customers have them upgrade to a more secure browser before they can enter the website...you would be doing them, youself and the rest of the world a favor or we will still build backwards websites in another decade because some people are more conscerned about money than accessibility and security. Grow some balls, or ovaries depending on your gender and do what needs to be done. http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&safe=off&q=ie6+security+issues&btnG=S%C3%B6k&meta= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='rct2dotcom' date='05 March 2009 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1236295477' post='1789006'] I'm kind of expecting InVision to continue support for IPB2 for a while, and waiting for an announcement on this. A lot of customers seem to like their mods and these are going to need serious review and changes to work with IPB3. For those who think they will still want to mod the actual code, then they still don't have their hands [officially] on unencoded source yet. And there are those who are tied into hosts who are resistant to upgrading their servers to run PHP5, required by IPB3. We will continue providing tech support for 2.3.6 for the forseeable future, but there will be no more updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy T Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I wonder if in a few years we will be seeing topics about not supporting ie7. For me personally I like using the newest software and hate using older outdated software. How ever my members are not that lucky. I know I have at least one member who has such an older computer he can not update the browser. He is using IE5 and already has issues on my site. The part of my site that works the best for him is ocportal but ocportal does a really good job at staying browser compatible. Although I like looking through the code and seeing IEsucks in the css and templates. LOL. I have no idea what will happen when I finally do upgrade to IPB 3. Will I loose the members who already have issues with IE 5 or will they stay. Although I do know one of them is planning on getting a new computer so maybe by the time he gets that ipb 3 will be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparc Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Amy T' date='06 March 2009 - 12:10 PM' timestamp='1236363054' post='1789134'] I wonder if in a few years we will be seeing topics about not supporting ie7. I'm thinking it might depend on how successful Windows 7 is. If it really takes off where both consumers and businesses switch, it might not be as bad as IE6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Wikman Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 [quote name='Amy T' date='06 March 2009 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1236363054' post='1789134'] I wonder if in a few years we will be seeing topics about not supporting ie7. For me personally I like using the newest software and hate using older outdated software. How ever my members are not that lucky. I know I have at least one member who has such an older computer he can not update the browser. He is using IE5 and already has issues on my site. The part of my site that works the best for him is ocportal but ocportal does a really good job at staying browser compatible. Although I like looking through the code and seeing IEsucks in the css and templates. LOL. I have no idea what will happen when I finally do upgrade to IPB 3. Will I loose the members who already have issues with IE 5 or will they stay. Although I do know one of them is planning on getting a new computer so maybe by the time he gets that ipb 3 will be out. I am sure we will even see topics about not supporting IE8, but probably not in the same context :) IE7 will probably be less of a problem than IE6 as people will most likely upgrade to IE8 rather than IE7 when they finally give up IE6. If your member has a computer that can not use IE6, then I think he has far worse problems than your site not showing up properly...he is using a calculator ;) If its a financial issue that prevent him from getting a computer on this side of the 21st century he has my sympathies otherwise I would strongly suggest that he get a computer that has a little more power to it...IE6 has a minimum requirement of 16-32MB RAM for crying out loud and even with a 486/66Mhz with windows 98 you could get it working: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/ie6/evaluation/sysreqs/default.mspx Are you sure that he really has a computer that is more than 15 years old or is he just not that technical about it? The thought of sitting in front of anything less capable than a 486/66mhz and less than 16mb ram makes me shudder...it would take ages to do anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy T Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Yes it is really that old. I have talked to him many times about it and even unintentionally made him feel guilty for having such an old machine. From my understanding he does not have the money to get a new computer but will be getting a used one as a gift soon. At one time I tried to get him to install linux on his computer, one of those distros that works with old computer but has new browsers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesmer Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Would be nice if v3 showed a message like facebook does, see picture a view posts up click Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H. Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 [quote name='Amy T' date='06 March 2009 - 01:10 PM' timestamp='1236363054' post='1789134'] I wonder if in a few years we will be seeing topics about not supporting ie7. I think that's probably unlikely... whether it falls behind the latest browsers and technology or not [and it will], it is still far enough along in standards support that there are no major discrepancies between that and the other major browsers. Assuming the basic standards stay the same, the only issues it will run into are not supporting the latest and greatest of CSS, but that is purely a visual difference and by nature it should degrade perfectly. I rarely have compatibility issues moving from what I've developed in Firefox to IE7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Sorry I haven't replied yet, I've been away this week.I'm happy to add an IE6-only stylesheet to make the skin a bit prettier in that browser, however, this adds an additional burden to people wanting to customize their skin. I just want to make it known that there are also cons to supporting IE6, we aren't just stubbornly saying no. To be clear, our aim is to make sure people using IE6 can use IPB - but they won't get an identical experience to people with modern browsers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybertimber2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 [quote name='Rikki' date='07 March 2009 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1236452315' post='1789305'] I'm happy to add an IE6-only stylesheet to make the skin a bit prettier in that browser, however, this adds an additional burden to people wanting to customize their skin. That's what I figured the reason was. Skinners would have 2 CSS sheets to worry about to create a new design. I might have a workable compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Lane! Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 [quote name='Rikki' date='07 March 2009 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1236452315' post='1789305'] Sorry I haven't replied yet, I've been away this week.I'm happy to add an IE6-only stylesheet to make the skin a bit prettier in that browser, however, this adds an additional burden to people wanting to customize their skin. I just want to make it known that there are also cons to supporting IE6, we aren't just stubbornly saying no. To be clear, our aim is to make sure people using IE6 can use IPB - but they won't get an identical experience to people with modern browsers. Two IPB style sheets would at least give a stop gap. We could put a notice on the IE6 style sheet that their current skin does not give them all the features of the newest browsers, but instead gracefully falls back to IE6 compatibility. Hopefully we can assign that style sheet to be used based on detecting their browser (an option in the IPB Control panel to "check" for IE6 and assign the skin?). As time goes on we as webmasters can simply (when the time is right) drop the style sheet and migrate everyone over to the new 3.x style sheet. We would turn off the IPB Control panel option (for IE6 legacy browser detection). This allows the webmasters to control when "their" customer base is forced to have the new skin. For all of us our member base probably varies on the percentage of people on IE6 but this at least gives us the option and control of when this happens. Thank you for the help if you really can make this happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Lane! Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 [quote name='Cybertimber2009' date='07 March 2009 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1236463027' post='1789329'] That's what I figured the reason was. Skinners would have 2 CSS sheets to worry about to create a new design. I might have a workable compromise. It does add a burden, but luckily that burden is self imposed. People can choose not to utilize this compatibility at all... I would certainly rather have the option to do something then not have the option at all :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct2·com Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Slightly OT, but anybody fancy writing a hook that senses IE6 [and other old browsers] and puts up a message warning them that their "experience" on the board may be affected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesmer Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote name='rct2dotcom' date='08 March 2009 - 09:13 AM' timestamp='1236500020' post='1789402'] Slightly OT, but anybody fancy writing a hook that senses IE6 [and other old browsers] and puts up a message warning them that their "experience" on the board may be affected? I'm very much interesred in this one myself and if you need something to read on this sunday:Browser Battle: Nine Browsers of Today and Tomorrow Compared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy T Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 the 2 css thing is how ocpotal stays compatible and yes it does also make for harder skin editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 You wouldn't need a hook for IE6 detection, you could do it using the expression parse tag right in the templates :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy T Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 You can go ahead and do that then. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 1) You can assign a stylesheet using special comments in templates that IE reads include ie6 stylesheet here <![endif]--> 2) IPB3 supports assigning a skin to a user based on their user agent already. No need for a modification or anything there. 3) IPB3's user agent support is greatly enhanced - IPB already stores the browser properties (so the detection part is done).<!--[if lt IE 7]> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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