Canadian Hotdogman Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 We don't expect you to understand complex economics, but surely you can see that a NON-RECURRING income can not sustain a company with staff, building costs, utility costs, et al.What are you talking about?I could name countless companies that don't have things where you subscribe and they are the richest in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Barrie Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 What are you talking about?I could name countless companies that don't have things where you subscribe and they are the richest in the world.Name one.Before you say "Microsoft" or "IBM" or even "Apple"... their support is most definitely NOT free. You want support from them, they ask for a credit card before they even get to "How can we help" - and you certainly don't get a free upgrade to the latest version of Windows, or the latest IBM Aptiva or MacBook every time a new version comes out. Companies don't survive by giving things away, and IPS is no exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyarr Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I wish I took a lifetime license on that sale instead of a yearly one, ah well. A perpetual will do I guess. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Barrie Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I wish I took a lifetime license on that sale instead of a yearly one, ah well. A perpetual will do I guess. :)Yeah, I actually got a yearly myself on that one, and upgraded exactly sixty days later to a lifetime... the maximum amount of time you could wait to upgrade a yearly to a lifetime was sixty days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hotdogman Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Are you crazy Kyanar?What if I went out and bought a television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Are you crazy Kyanar?What if I went out and bought a television. If it broke, you would have to *pay* to bring it to a repairman after the initial warranty was up (we give 6 months support, so it's very similar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 That was an attempt at humor :)i should have known... :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todorov.com Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 That's not fair! You should leave ACCESS to all PERPETUAL (LIFETIME) license holders!!! I should pay to write in forum or what? Make it the right way guys, if you kick the people from ipsbeyond they will go to invizionise and get same help and same mods ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hotdogman Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If it broke, you would have to *pay* to bring it to a repairman after the initial warranty was up (we give 6 months support, so it's very similar).Look. There's no way somebody can say that a company that doesn't offer subscriptions can't make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZuCruTrooper2 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 That's not fair! You should leave ACCESS to all PERPETUAL (LIFETIME) license holders!!! I should pay to write in forum or what? Make it the right way guys, if you kick the people from ipsbeyond they will go to invizionise and get same help and same mods ...How many times must it be said? A lifetime license is different than a perpetual license. A lifetime license gives you lifetime access to support (IPS Beyond) and upgrades. A perpetual license gives you lifetime access to upgrades, but only a year of support.IPSBeyond is part of the support offering from IPS. If you aren't paying for support, then you don't get Beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sully Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 That's not fair! You should leave ACCESS to all PERPETUAL (LIFETIME) license holders!!! I should pay to write in forum or what? Make it the right way guys, if you kick the people from ipsbeyond they will go to invizionise and get same help and same mods ...A perpetual license is not a lifetime license. There both different. I do believe fulltime license holders get onto IPSBeyond at no extra charge, and perpetual license holders just renew for support fee to get access?Pointless I can see, considering IZE offers a lot of what IPSBeyond offers. But, IPS will be able to do it cause a lot of IPS Customers want it to be "Active License Holders Only". :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedPakistan Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 How about if you guys count Gallery and Blog as active licenses as well and still allow downloads and what not. At least then you wont have so many good IPS customers getting angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todorov.com Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 What? Then how can I get Lifetime account? There is no such thing in customer panel, and there was no such offer before I upgraded to perpetual some days ago because of the new payment structure. Someone explain this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZuCruTrooper2 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 As previously mentioned, the Lifetime license option was discontinued back in 2004, so you can no longer purchase it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedPakistan Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 well no point in trying to get them to change thier decision they wont listen. They have made their choice now adapt to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Phantom Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 A perpetual license is not a lifetime license. There both different. I do believe fulltime license holders get onto IPSBeyond at no extra charge, and perpetual license holders just renew for support fee to get access?Pointless I can see, considering IZE offers a lot of what IPSBeyond offers. But, IPS will be able to do it cause a lot of IPS Customers want it to be "Active License Holders Only". :)You are correct, I have a lifetime license, and I get access to IPSBeyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 well no point in trying to get them to change thier decision they wont listen. They have made their choice now adapt to it.There's a difference between not listening and not changing their decision. They are listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 All of the comments are being taken in, but that doesn't mean things will change necessarily because of them. :) I don't know all of the changes in store, so all I can suggest is state your view and then be patient and see what happens.How about if you guys count Gallery and Blog as active licenses as well and still allow downloads and what not. At least then you wont have so many good IPS customers getting angry.If you have Gallery, you have access to Gallery sections on IPS Beyond. If you have Blog, you have access to Blog sections of IPS Beyond. Likewise with the download manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philltopia Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If anyone's still confused, it makes sense from a linear standpoint.First there were yearly licenses which expired after a year.Also, there was a Lifetime license that gave you free updates and support for life.Later, IPS dropped that (probably because it was too generous) in favor of Perpetual. Perpetual gives you free updates for life, but only a free year of service.And now IPS is going to all-yearly licenses. If what I understand is correct, there will be no way to buy any sort of infinite license. Everything must be renewed.I'm fine with charging for support, but IPSB should be free for any customers or seperate from official support. I'm OK with paying for IPSB but I don't want to pay for official support which I won't need. If there was a $10 yearly fee for solely IPSB access, I'd buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevilman Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have several Licenses, three of which are Perpetual Licenses. These Perpetual Licenses carry official support only so long as i pay for the official support renewals. However, i am still a current customer for life as i can use, download and update them for life. As a business owner i can appreciate that if someone has a problem, they have an expectation of official support from said company. And that, that company is obligated to take care of those problems. This is a fair expectation since that official support has been paid for. This is what i get with IPS and i was and will continue to be happy to pay for this support should i so desire.IPSBeyond on the other hand is not official support and no one there is under any obligation to help me with anything. Obviously the vast majority of the members there are just other customers and not official staff members. If you have a problem that falls into the category of needing official support you can't really get it there anyhow. Someone will simply tell you to fill out an official support ticket. IPSBeyond is not official support. It is however, a great perk to current customers that have paid for their licenses as opposed to those who ...uh... have not... or simply have Licenses that have expired making them no longer current customers.That being said, i would love to see that if you are a current customer of IPS, (rather than currently subscribed to official support) that you can use IPSBeyond since again, it is not official support. Since IPSBeyond is not official support i think that it being for all current customers just makes good business sense. A perpetual License holder is a current customer for life regardless of their official support status.This is the case in the vast majority of company community forums that i have seen in my own personal experience. It is just sound business behavior when it comes to current customers imho. However, this is just my pov and not my decision in the end of course. I hope that someone on staff with IPS will see the same logic in this particular pov but as is obvious here, there are many opinions to be had. This one just happens to be mine. ;)Some of what i have written may seem a little redundant, but i just wanted to make my point as clear as i was able. Hopefully i have done that and not just made it more confusing, hehe.Food for thought,-thedevilman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted October 17, 2006 Management Share Posted October 17, 2006 Again, we appreciate your concern and the feedback the same. We have no plans to allow perpetual license holders lifetime access to IPSBeyond or other services we might offer, I'm sorry. As has been stated before, a perpetual license grants you perpetual access to product upgrades - there's nothing more implied, nor has there ever been. We're not really claiming that IPSBeyond is official support (I do realize this has been a source of confusion in the past) - it's a value added resource we offer to those who continue to bring us their business year after year. I realize some of you have reasons for believing it should be open to perpetual users or all users as the case may be. Other customers have their reasons for not wanting it to be so, as do we. Unfortunately, this particular option isn't on the table - I'm sorry. Please feel free to keep other suggestions coming though. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Wylde Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Maybe this should be changed out of the client center..Official Resource site[url="http://www.ipsbeyond.com/"]Click here[/url] to visit IPS Beyond, your username is [b]PMarch[/b]. [b]IPS Beyond is the official resource site created for and by IPS customers[/b]. Feel free to post questions for informal customer-to-customer support or even add your own tips and downloads. Always use the support ticket feature in your client area for official support from IPS staff.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevilman Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If it broke, you would have to *pay* to bring it to a repairman after the initial warranty was up (we give 6 months support, so it's very similar).Yeah, but that is not the case with IPSBeyond. If you needed it fixed you can't get it done there anyhow since it's not official support. It would be more accurate to compare this to going to the TV manufacturers community forums and talking with other customers on how to do it yourself. If you paid for official support you would just get them to fix it for you. ;)Click here to visit IPS Beyond, your username is username. IPS Beyond is the official resource site created for and by IPS customers. Feel free to post questions for informal customer-to-customer support or even add your own tips and downloads. Always use the support ticket feature in your client area for official support from IPS staff.That states very much what i stated but simplified. If Perpetual License holders cannot access IPSBeyond once their official support is over, than that statement is inaccurate and unclear. An official resource is very much different than official support. That statement even makes the distinction by telling you that for official support, you must go elsewhere.If i can download IPB why can't i talk about it at IPSBeyond or download mods for it? It doesn't match up. When i bought my Honda Civic i got access to their customer only community forums of which i could otherwise not until i was a customer. When my warranty (like IPS official support in this case) runs out i still get access to their customer only forums since it is not official support and they see it as good business for their current customers. And like i've said too many times now, it's just not official support anyhow.It has also been made very clear that IPS will not install their IPSBeyond hosted mods nor fix them for you. If that were the case it might make more sense to pay for access to a site of which i am already a customer.Funny enough, i have official support atm and will for quite some time, i guess it's more of a principle thing for me, hehe. Oh well, i think i'm beating a dead horse. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I'm in two minds about IPS beyond. I'm still not a big fan of it, as I prefer the maturity in the Community Forums here, but here is my ideas / suggestions:- Allow access to downloads for the software versions their license allows (upload and download)- Allow read access to topics in apropriate forums (maybe sub-forums for particular versions, provide read access to those)- Read and write access to Auto-Generate mod support topics where they are the modification author - I made a mod, but couldnt support it on IPSB for some time because my support had expired - quite annoying for both parties, and reflects badly on IPSB.I know it's not likely to be done, but thats my views on the matter anyway.Michael :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Barrie Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Look. There's no way somebody can say that a company that doesn't offer subscriptions can't make money.That is not what I said. What I said was that a company that has no RECURRING income cannot survive. IPS previously had no guaranteed recurring income. A lifetime license bound IPS to provide support and upgrades for free for the lifetime of the company. As a comparison to your TV... Sony don't give you a free TV every time a new model comes out. IPS does.Unless of course you'd prefer to RE-BUY Invision Board every time a new version comes out? If you would like to purchase like that, I'll happily stay with my subscription model thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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